Turning off shapes?

[drapellanes]

Is there a simple way of turning shapes on & off? Rather than moving the shape off the viewable area, a switch to turn them on and off would be easier to use. Does Silhouette FX have a feature like this?

[paulm]

There are three ways to "turn a shape off":

1. to not have it render - set its opacity to 0 or move it out of view
2. to hide the outline on a per shape basis and have it not show up in the timeline, use the "eye" icon in the Shape List
3. to temporarily hide all shape outlines, turn off the "Overlay" button

[drapellanes]

okay. thanks for your help

[jbills]

Moving the shape out of view is not an advisable habit to form, as shapes with motion blur will most likely exhibit a "streaking" artifact on the frame before the move off screen.

Opacity is the preferred way to turn off a shape for most people.

[perryk]

Hey. There is a method no one has mentioned.

If a shape becomes obscured, it is because it is behind another thing that a shape could be drawn around. If this is true, then roto the appropriate bits of the occluding shape and set it to subtract. Then, as a shape disappears behind the occluding shape, it will be "covered up".

If nothing is behind the occluding shape, then because it is set to subtract mode, it won't render anything.

p

[crow]

I really think it'd be a neat and simple feature to just be able to turn a shape off. Having to keyframe it is kinda counter productive. Why not have some sort of 'right click' 'off/on' function?

There are three ways to "turn a shape off":

1. to not have it render - set its opacity to 0 or move it out of view
2. to hide the outline on a per shape basis and have it not show up in the timeline, use the "eye" icon in the Shape List
3. to temporarily hide all shape outlines, turn off the "Overlay" button

[paulm]

crow - what do you mean by "turn it off"?

Do you mean "not render"? If so, keyframes are the only way to do it. We have per-shape opacity right now, so you could just set the opacity 0.0. If you want to leave the shape around but never have it render, just turn off animation of the opacity parameter and set it to zero.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you want.

[crow]

Hi.
Sorry. All I meant was that rather than having to keyframe a shapes visibility, e.g. frame #1 100% opacity and then on frame #2 typing in 0%. Having to take your hand off the mouse to type in parameters. Why not have a feature where you can just right-click on frame #2 and it gives you an option to create a keyframe either at 0 or 100% opacity, ie 'on' or 'off'.

Or have a feature like in Commotion where you click on the little 'x' under a keyframe to turn it on or off.

[crow]

I meant 100% opacity for 'on' and 0% for 'off'.

[perryk]

Sorry. All I meant was that rather than having to keyframe a shapes visibility, e.g. frame #1 100% opacity and then on frame #2 typing in 0%. Having to take your hand off the mouse to type in parameters. Why not have a feature where you can just right-click on frame #2 and it gives you an option to create a keyframe either at 0 or 100% opacity, ie 'on' or 'off'.

I like this idea. It would be a shortcut for discreet changes in opacity. If you turn the shape "off" on frame N, it would look at frame N-1, and set the equivalent of a hold on that frame to keep the previous opacity intact. Then set the opacity to 0 on this frame N.

This sort of looking at previous and next frames and setting keys as needed might be a good short cut.

What about my comment about having shapes occlude other shapes using the subtract rendering mode?

Also, what about a "don't render me" stream, where checked - don't render.

This (turning frames on and off) seems to be an important feature discussed by several users. Maybe we should find a way to make it easier.

[crow]

It's mainly a work-flow thing. It'd be easier to have a 'control system' where you're not having to take your hand off the mouse all the time (ie typing numbers or changing tools). I know there are quick-keys, but couldn't there be something like Maya's 'Hotbox' where all/some menus can be accessed via a right-click?

[paulm]

Yes I had proposed something like this in another thread. A boolean "shape on/off" control which would override the opacity. J seemed to think it wasn't necessary. Perry noted that some shape formats didn't support it.

I can add it, but work would have to be done on the exporters to either ignore it or deal with it.

[crow]

Hmm.. interesting.
I guess it depends what you are using the mattes for.
Here, in our facility, the mattes are rendered out as separate files and imported into Shake. Any changes to the matte (eg, animated opacity changes) are done in Shake.
We have to deal with a lot of marker removals and as you can imagine, a person can spend a lot of time switching a shape's opacity off and on. Especially when there are dozens of markers to deal with.
Maybe it's a feature that would only work if mattes were being rendered from within Silhouette?



Yes I had proposed something like this in another thread. A boolean "shape on/off" control which would override the opacity. J seemed to think it wasn't necessary. Perry noted that some shape formats didn't support it.

I can add it, but work would have to be done on the exporters to either ignore it or deal with it.

[paulm]

Hmm.. interesting.
I guess it depends what you are using the mattes for.
Here, in our facility, the mattes are rendered out as separate files and imported into Shake. Any changes to the matte (eg, animated opacity changes) are done in Shake.
We have to deal with a lot of marker removals and as you can imagine, a person can spend a lot of time switching a shape's opacity off and on. Especially when there are dozens of markers to deal with.
Maybe it's a feature that would only work if mattes were being rendered from within Silhouette?

Yes, it probably only makes sense if you're rendering from within roto. If you're going to export the shapes, then deal with the visibility issues in your target app. You can export them to Shake, then import them into Shake with our importer, so that is an option if you prefer that.

I do like Perry's idea of the Opacity adjustment shortcut though. Sounds like something perfect for a scripting interface too! :-)

[adam]

second the ability to turn off shapes.

simply to right click 'off' to turn off the shape from the veiwer and its ability to render from that frame. -----xooooooox----- would be handy for the shots with loads of shapes required for only a few frames.

[i8bozo]

don't forget about us pen users. a right click approach may not suffice. keep the pen in mind when thinking about these decisions. not all of us use a mouse with three buttons.

thank you.

.g.

[marcop]

Will have to come up with Middle mouse and Right Mouse equivalents for pen users. Right now the Right mouse is duplicated with the "~" key. There are middle mouse equivalents for other functions as well. I take it that you are unsatisfied with our equivalents. Other than Ctrl and Alt, what keys would you like to use in conjunction with the pen to duplicate the middle mouse and right mouse buttons?

[i8bozo]

Will have to come up with Middle mouse and Right Mouse equivalents for pen users. Right now the Right mouse is duplicated with the "~" key. There are middle mouse equivalents for other functions as well. I take it that you are unsatisfied with our equivalents. Other than Ctrl and Alt, what keys would you like to use in conjunction with the pen to duplicate the middle mouse and right mouse buttons?

marco,

it's not that i'm displeased or unhappy with your selections for hotkeys. i'm just saying and stressing to no end that everyone works differently and that having the ability to set user defined hotkeys for the normal everyday functions is one of the best things you could implement into a piece of software.

look to MAYA and their customizable hotbox, popup anywhere access to their toolsets and menus. that was a stellar implementation and a fine example of how to give power to the user to speed their workflow.

i agree something will have to be considered for those who use a pen. for the idea of turning a shape on and off as for rendering as i believe was the main topic of this thread, that can be a radio button somewhere in the timeline and not necessarily a hotkey implementation.

i would LOVE to see or have the ability to set my own PAN controls. if i had that power, i'd set the pan function to Control+shift only because my left hand rests over by the arrow and page up/page down keys when i work. enabling me the possibility to set my own pan hotkey would allow me to keep my hand in that position which in turn would then speed my production because i'm not hunting for keys. does that make sense?

customization = power ... which translates to better efficiency for everyone.

thanks for goin hard out and addressing all these concerns.

.g.

[i8bozo]

hello,

i'm at this stage of the game now. i'm with crow and adam with regard to turning shapes off so they don't render. here's my current situation so you can get an idea.

i have a shape that needs to have motion blur turned on (heavy motion on element). so i turn it on. well, i get to a frame towards the end of the shot and i no longer need the motion blur. i'd like to be able to keyframe the motion blur so i can activate it when i need it and deactivate when i don't (like in this particular case).

as it happens, i don't even need this shape in the shot anymore and when i try to set it outside the boundary of the frame (only option cause i can't keyframe visibility yet), i get this lovely streak through my matte which is unacceptable.

i think my only solution in this instance is to do as earlier suggested ... draw another shape around this current shape and hopefully subtract it right outta there. counter productive, but will solve my problem.

i only hope this motion blur setting is not set for all shapes in this session. if it is, i'd like to suggest a shape by shape option to allow motion blur to be turned on on an individual basis. having it set for a whole session is not wise. i'll look into that now.

thanks very much!

.g.

[paulm]

Instead of moving the shape off-screen, set the opacity keys to Hold, and then add a 0-opacity key on the frame you want it off. Then you only need two opacity keys - one at the beginning and one on the frame you want the shape turned off.

Motion blur *is* per shape, but if ANY shape is motion-blurred, the motion blur process has to be done on every frame. Currently, this is even if the motion-blurred frames are off. Sorry about that.