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mikeparsons2
03-30-2005, 03:04 PM
Video

No application has ever done roto for fields properly. Whilst 99% of all our tvc work is shot 35mm we do still get elements from the US which have been 3:2 transferred then standards converted... ugh!

Since the Harry days until now in Henry/Flame/iQ the standard way of working with fields in video has always been to deinterlace to get a clip twice the length then roto, then interlace the resulting matte.

I would like to suggest sRoto does the following; The user would select PAL Video or NTSC Video and then the system would displays only 1 field at a time and scale the field to twice its height to maintain correct aspect ratio. The jog buttons would now move you a field rather than a frame and render field based interlaced output frames. The frame counter should read 0,5, 1, 1.5, 2... as you jog.
This removes an entire bookend of processes required on every other system.

The added complication for film transferred to video in the NTSC world is the 3:2 pulldown added in telecine to get 60 fields out of 24 frames. Again since the Harry days the process has been to use a function variously called
Cinecompress
FilmCompress
Remove pulldown etc
what the user does is usually identify the first flicker frame in a sequence then process the clip to obtain a new shorter clip of just the original 24 film frames. When roto is completed the user then reprocesses the matte through a 3:2 adding process to reobtain the original length clip.

What i would like to see in NTSC video setup is an added box on the desktop which is a simple toggle to Remove 3:2 pulldown. The user would select NTSC 3:2 Video as the setup, the system would now display frames again not fields and work as normal. The user would then load the media then jog through to the first flicker frame THEN press the remove pulldown checkbox. Thereafter the system would only display the original 24 film frames but would render a 3:2 added original length clip.

Exported splines would have an option of being frame for frame or 3:2 added.

When handing to/from Flames etc the 3:2 would have been taken care of by the Flame artist so this may be asking a lot but it seems to me you have a real opportunity here to get this stuff right.

Course you need all the usual upper/lower field first crap in the session settings...

best regards

paulm
03-30-2005, 03:09 PM
Mike - this is planned.

Right now there is no way to get to the "in-between frames" but our time is all floating point.

mikeparsons2
03-31-2005, 03:51 PM
Just a thought...

As I see from the posts we have some power roto dudes using the product... no doubt they and I will make many feature requests over time and many will no doubt be implemented.

However,
the big attraction of sroto to me as a super was the very small learning curve to have people up and running. yes they will in time want the power features we are requesting but it would be a shame to lose the 'just-sit-down-and-start-to-roto' aspects of the application.

What do you think of the idea of having a preferences setting for 'basic' and 'power user'? Just hide a bunch of extra stuff from the juniors but make it easy to access when needed?

Even as i write this i can't decide if this is a really bad idea and whether people should just LEARN the software however complex it becomes.. what do other users think? Anyone here responsible for getting roto artists up to speed?

best regards

Mike Parsons

paulm
03-31-2005, 03:55 PM
Mike this is a good point and something I stuggle with for EVERY feature. Integrating a feature with the existing feature set so it is both useful and not in the way is probably the toughest part of the design.

A LOT of the requested functionality can be done through preferences, fortunately, which are easy to add. And other things (like key remapping) will be "hidden" in config files, which power users can get to.

Wait until you see the major feature I am working on now. It is integrated seemlessly but if you never "use" it you'll never know it is there.

mikemarcus
04-03-2005, 06:31 AM
Erm....Ahem...Shake

[QUOTE=mikeparsons2]Video

No application has ever done roto for fields properly.

paulm
04-03-2005, 08:12 AM
Actually, I forgot about Elastic Reality. On Windows and Mac, it let you roto on every field. That was 10 years ago too.

i8bozo
04-04-2005, 04:43 PM
mike,

this is a grand idea and one i fully support. i AM responsible from time to time for training people to do the job of roto. usually that involves an evening or two in front of the current off the shelf package of choice. when i am giving a lesson, there are some things i pass over on the first day because it is an advanced topic and somewhat overwhelming for the beginner. i've found though that those things tend to be learned in time as the situation arises in the work place.

i wouldn't be against editing a config file once to set up my 'power-user' environment if that's what would be required to envoke those settings.

looking forward to the future release.

.g.

Just a thought...

What do you think of the idea of having a preferences setting for 'basic' and 'power user'? Just hide a bunch of extra stuff from the juniors but make it easy to access when needed?

Even as i write this i can't decide if this is a really bad idea and whether people should just LEARN the software however complex it becomes.. what do other users think? Anyone here responsible for getting roto artists up to speed?

best regards

Mike Parsons